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admin said:

googlyminotaur said:

Socrates? As the resident philosophy major, I will have to say no. First off, Socrates' written work has never been found. We know of Socrates as a character in Plato's dialogues. Anyhow, Plato did provide explanations which he called the "forms."

You're thinking of Friedrich Nietzsche and nihilism.

For all intents and purposes I'm right. Socrates is famous for asking questions, not answering them. It's part of the socratic method. Plato provided explanations, not Socrates.

But you said "to point out a problem." There is a great difference between that and "asking a question." For example, Socrates would ask questions that would lead to an answer for a problem (usually an answer he already knew but asked so that is followers would understand).

Yes, it is apart of the socratic method but, surprisingly, the socratic method is suppose to go somewhere.

[Kuat]

googlyminotaur said:

admin said:

For all intents and purposes I'm right. Socrates is famous for asking questions, not answering them. It's part of the socratic method. Plato provided explanations, not Socrates.

But you said "to point out a problem." There is a great difference between that and "asking a question." For example, Socrates would ask questions that would lead to an answer for a problem (usually an answer he already knew but asked so that is followers would understand).

Yes, it is apart of the socratic method but, surprisingly, the socratic method is suppose to go somewhere.

By my understanding he never lead anyone to answers. Indeed, some questions deliberately had no answers and still don't today such as the existance ones.

[You probably can't touch this.]

admin said:

googlyminotaur said:

But you said "to point out a problem." There is a great difference between that and "asking a question." For example, Socrates would ask questions that would lead to an answer for a problem (usually an answer he already knew but asked so that is followers would understand).

Yes, it is apart of the socratic method but, surprisingly, the socratic method is suppose to go somewhere.

By my understanding he never lead anyone to answers. Indeed, some questions deliberately had no answers and still don't today such as the existance ones.

Have you read Plato's dialogues? Socrates whole reason for asking questions is to lead to an answer.

Sure, there maybe be some unanswerable ones (don't remember reading any) but he does come to conclusions when he talks about the soul, the idea of perfection, love, the existence of God, etc.

[Kuat]

googlyminotaur said:

admin said:

By my understanding he never lead anyone to answers. Indeed, some questions deliberately had no answers and still don't today such as the existance ones.

Have you read Plato's dialogues? Socrates whole reason for asking questions is to lead to an answer.

Sure, there maybe be some unanswerable ones (don't remember reading any) but he does come to conclusions when he talks about the soul, the idea of perfection, love, the existence of God, etc.

Heh, I had to read that book for my classical greece class.

But no, the point of Socrates was that he was the first to truly question everything. Plato is plato, and his accounts actually differer from what Socrates may or may not have been. That was why Socrates was sentenced to death; not for giving objecting ideas but questioning the current authority.

[Kuat]

Wikipedia backs me up:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socrates

"There are some who claim that Socrates had no particular set of beliefs, and sought only to examine; the lengthy theories he gives in the Republic are considered to be the thoughts of Plato. Others argue that he did have his own theories and beliefs, but there is much controversy over what these might have been, owing to both the difficulty of separating Socrates from Plato and the difficulty of even interpreting the dramatic writings of Plato. Therefore, it is very important to keep this in mind when reading the following presentations of Socrates' thought; none of it is agreed upon, and all must be taken with a grain of salt."

And...

"Socrates seems to have often stated that his wisdom was limited to an awareness of his own ignorance."

I'm not saying for 100% that Socrates didn't come to conclusions or have beliefs, but his main contribution and the reason you read about him is that he questions beleifs. Some he may agree with, but he still questions. Where does it ever say Socrates was known for his solutions? I propose that nowhere says such a thing.

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I thought the point you were making was that Socrates only asked questions and never provided answers.

To say that Socrates (himself) either had or didn't have his own set of beliefs is too large of a claim to make seeing that no record of his own theories exist. Socrates is basically nothing more of a mouthpiece for Plato's own theories and a historical conundrum.

Actually, Socrates was sentenced to death for corrupting the youth of Greece. Socrates could have taught his students answers to some questions that the government did not agree with.

[You probably can't touch this.]

admin said:

I'm not saying for 100% that Socrates didn't come to conclusions or have beliefs, but his main contribution and the reason you read about him is that he questions beleifs.

O RLLY?

admin said:

My problem is that I hate Socrates. It's great to point out a problem. Little babies can point out problems. Providing solutions or explanations is what is actually important.

[Kuat]

googlyminotaur said:

admin said:

I'm not saying for 100% that Socrates didn't come to conclusions or have beliefs, but his main contribution and the reason you read about him is that he questions beleifs.

O RLLY?

admin said:

My problem is that I hate Socrates. It's great to point out a problem. Little babies can point out problems. Providing solutions or explanations is what is actually important.

Ya Rly.

I don't see why you bothered quoting those two sentences. They aren't in contradiction with eachother:

In one I say Socrates is remembered for questioning.

In the other I say such questioning is rather elementary.

Just because something is remembered doesn't mean everyone subscribes to it or thinks it is important.

And no, Socrates was put to death because he questioned the gods. He made the youth think dangerous things by asking, what were at the time, radical questions. He incited them by proposing questions, not solutions. That part is well known.

Edit: I should add that in our current society is where my opinion applies. Back in the day of Socrates, the scientific method was not invented yet, something that we all take for granted. He is remembered as a father of a school of thought, like Darwin is the father of evolution. Evolution has grown much larger than the scope of Darwin, and in parallel philosophy has grown larger than Socrates.

Socrates method, on it's own, is not sufficent. That was why I didn't like it, because it was an incomplete concept that used by itself seemed to accomplish little. In the context of this thread, solely questioning current issues is only part of a method. And taking into account our evolved social status, only doing questioning is rather silly, because we as a society have become more aware, and thus the method isolated is useless. To use an analogy, doing an evolutionary biology experiment using peppered moths is silly. More in depth experiment are required nowadays. Such as is with this case.

[You probably can't touch this.]

The phrasing of the second quotation insinuates that Socrates never provided answers. Why would you hate Socrates if Socrates provided answers?

But you are right about Socrates being put to death for inciting the questioning of the Greek Gods. However, the indepth account of Socrates' trial comes from Plato's Dialogues which entices doubt.

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admin said:

Socrates method, on it's own, is not sufficent. That was why I didn't like it, because it was an incomplete concept that used by itself seemed to accomplish little. In the context of this thread, solely questioning current issues is only part of a method. And taking into account our evolved social status, only doing questioning is rather silly, because we as a society have become more aware, and thus the method isolated is useless. To use an analogy, doing an evolutionary biology experiment using peppered moths is silly. More in depth experiment are required nowadays. Such as is with this case.

If you only just said that you don't like the Socratic Method the first time instead of saying that you dislike Socrates, we would have been saved a lot of time. When you used the name of Socrates, I assumed you were criticizing Plato's work as I identify him more with the dialogues instead of the Socratic Method that you idenitfy him with more.

[Captain Galaxy]

My intellectual input on this matter. Zeus ruled all!

[Kuat]

googlyminotaur said:

admin said:

Socrates method, on it's own, is not sufficent. That was why I didn't like it, because it was an incomplete concept that used by itself seemed to accomplish little. In the context of this thread, solely questioning current issues is only part of a method. And taking into account our evolved social status, only doing questioning is rather silly, because we as a society have become more aware, and thus the method isolated is useless. To use an analogy, doing an evolutionary biology experiment using peppered moths is silly. More in depth experiment are required nowadays. Such as is with this case.

If you only just said that you don't like the Socratic Method the first time instead of saying that you dislike Socrates, we would have been saved a lot of time. When you used the name of Socrates, I assumed you were criticizing Plato's work as I identify him more with the dialogues instead of the Socratic Method that you idenitfy him with more.

Well then I guess I'm just a ditz

[You probably can't touch this.]

Nonesense, it was simply a misunderstanding.

Now let us drink our brandy and smoke our cigars while laughing at the universe.

[Muramasa]

*scoff scoff scoff scoff*

So, back to your band, Vampyre...

[Captain Galaxy]

I don't have a band...

[Muramasa]

Yes you do, don't lie!