The Animation Thread

[Muramasa]

Your idea sucks.

[Inaaca]

Feb 7, 2010 14:29:28 GMT -8 Kuat said:

That seems like the great start to an adventure. It satisfies the essential questions (who, where, what, why etc) and leaves an opening for the story proper to take place. I wouldn't add nor subtract anything, as it again seems to be a great foundation for a larger story to build upon.

I guess the other thing is that more can be done during his time of isolation, how he spends his days and deals with being alone like that.

I can't really spend too much time on the isolation aspect simply due to labor/time constraints. I may be able to expand a bit on the animation after the year is over, however.

My biggest concerns with the animation at the moment, with this current idea, is effectively conveying
1) the fact that he's been alone for a long time, and that this is longer than it should have been, and
2) the importance (and his desperation) of contacting the stranger in the desert.
Now, I have ways to communicate this already, but I'd like to make these things even clearer, particularly because these things are so important when it comes to the audience clearly understanding the story.

Feb 7, 2010 20:52:57 GMT -8 Muramasa said:

Your idea sucks.

Really, dude? You don't have ANYTHING to add after all that brainstorming?

[Captain Galaxy]

I don't he needs to. It's pretty self evident that is sucks balls. Big hairy sweaty ones.

[Inaaca]

Ya know, I don't mind joking here and there... But I really am trying to get some legitimate feedback to improve my work here. This is something I'm taking very seriously, because I want to be able to showcase this in a portfolio for many years to come, and I want it to exhibit my absolute best.

So joking is fine, but honest feedback is very critical and important to me. Just something to keep in mind.
Thanks, guys.

[Muramasa]

Feb 7, 2010 20:57:09 GMT -8 Inaaca said:

My biggest concerns with the animation at the moment, with this current idea, is effectively conveying
1) the fact that he's been alone for a long time, and that this is longer than it should have been, and
2) the importance (and his desperation) of contacting the stranger in the desert.
Now, I have ways to communicate this already, but I'd like to make these things even clearer, particularly because these things are so important when it comes to the audience clearly understanding the story.

Well, that shouldn't be too much of an issue, though no immediate answer may come up. Passage of time can be portrayed through changes in the environment and changes in the character's movement and expression. If you can show an effect passage of time, hopefully you can create the direness of the situation.

[You probably can't touch this.]

Yeah, there are many passive visual cues available. You can show the passage of great spans of time through a calendar, clutter to show his psychological state, etc. Going off the idea of the calendar, you could reuse that old Looney Tunes montage of a calendar's months falling off transparently superimposed over Punk working away at the machines.

[Captain Galaxy]

I still like my idea of a valve that says "This valve must be released every two months." Or quite simply, my favorite: the kid growing a beard.

[Inaaca]

Heh, the superimposed did calendar cross my mind as an option. These are all interesting ideas to consider for the problem, though. Still, the main problem in this "time montage" is fitting it within the time constraints. Considering the complexity if this idea already, I'll surely need to shave off some of the workload in certain areas.

[Captain Galaxy]

Really the issue here is the presentation, because a major theme of the piece is the passing of time, a great majority of the whole 90 second sequence (up until he tries to get the transport's attention) has to be portrayed as a long passage of time itself.

Because music is being included, the tools in which you can convey themes or emotions are greatly expanded. That being said, the way the music is written can give the impression of passing time. An important aspect of any film-- animated, live-action, short form or long form-- is pacing. It would be really out of place, considering the length of the film, to simply stop it to show that time has passed. Not saying that this is what you plan to do, but setting an example to help explain why pacing is important.

My suggestion is that the whole first part of the sequence (showing his work on machinery, role as a keeper, being on the lookout) be intertwined with various shots of something that indicates passing time, be that a think that grows, rusts--whatever. These can both be intertwined creatively to also begin forming a driving narrative, another important aspect of filmmaking. The way I see it is this:

Begin slowly, (relative to length of piece, of course) with music also slow, implying passive turning of time, the work is taken lightly; rust, plant, whatever is shown occurring slowly. As music begins to speed up, so does work on machinery, growth--- looking out for transport/sign of life becomes more frantic, along with music.

Transport is spotted headed in wrong direction. Music Stops. Begins even faster, along with animations of him trying different ways to get its attention, eventually climaxing with him destroying the machine that causes the giant smoke plume. Music picks up slowly, hopefully-- as he rushes down and sees the figure.

Really, like you said, there's a bit too many ideas, ideas that require a large amount of time to convey, and little amount of time to convey them. Really, you can't do that last scene where he sees the girl and hugs her too quickly. The emotional content demanded by the scene requires about 10 seconds at least. But if you ask me, I think it is very possible to sort those three main parts of the sequence into something that lasts 90 seconds or maybe even a little bit more. As an aspiring director to director-- and you are a director now, considering your expanded role in this piece-- I will tell you that there are more tools here at your disposal than simply animation, although of course that is the focus of this project, be they physical or theoretical or technical. But if you really want a project that will last and impress in your portfolio for years, you really need to show that you are more than just animator.

[Inaaca]

Heh, your talk of being a director reminds me of a while back when Shane was saying that I was basically acting as not only an editor, but also a director when I created my AMVs. It's a very similar situation, because I have to organize and communicate everything within a set timeframe. But yeah, I'm basically a one man team on this project. I'm sitting in every seat throughout the process and handling every aspect. It really is a rare opportunity that will pretty much never happen with an industry job.

To once again address the issue of having too much in too short of a timeframe, I was considering an option. Since creating a segment to show passing of time is becoming more and more of a consideration, I was thinking that, to make room, his "signaling attempts" can be simplified a lot. Multiple attempts are both very time and labor intensive. In short, I'm considering stripping it down to one attempt at some major machinery in the core (think something like the machine I drew in my initial concept sketches). The tension, instead of building from attempt to attempt, would build from his desperate struggles with this machine. This would simplify and streamline things a lot, while still managing to keep a sense of desperate tension. I can really see him frantically activating things, and struggling with a really rusty emergency switch that refuses to budge.

There's of course also the moral dilemma of busting the machine in the first place. Also, consider the alternative story option that the machine doesn't necessarily HAVE to be destroyed to make the signal. Perhaps he simply overclocks it to create the plume, and turns it back after. Just ideas I'm throwing out to consider.

To address your soundtrack options.. I'm glad you're considering ideas. I have one critique with your pacing rundown, though, in the passage of time part. I would think, that, if anything, he would start out at a good pace and gradually slow down and become more sluggish as time passed, rather than speeding up as you were mentioning.

I have a question with soundtrack creation, though, since I'm unfamiliar with the process you go through. How difficult is it to change a written/composed piece of music after the fact? The reason I ask is because I'm wondering if you'll be able to make adjustments should the animation happen to make some late-stage pacing changes or if I decide to make additions later (each of these things fairly likely to happen).

[Captain Galaxy]

The new idea of him struggling with making the machine cause a big but nondisastrous steam burst is actually good in my opinion, as it solves the moral dilemma previously discussed. It also simplifies the animation a bit I would assume. Also, the slowing down of the music and making the action sluggish makes a lot of sense, and I really agree with it, as it not only communicates passing of time, but that that passing of time and work is getting monotonous.

To answer your question:

Shouldn't be too hard. Music is basically packets; repetition of rhythm, harmony, melody, to create phrases that repeat. Simply what I can do is start writing something in 2/4 time, which is very flexible in extending or shortening pieces. It wouldn't be exactly on cue, but I could definitely try to restructure the theme to fit the animation after you're are completely done with it, or even while you're working on it. Basically the best solution for this is to not only give you a completed theme for you to work with to try to restructure it after you are done, but to work alongside you the whole length of the process to suit it to the animation.

To be honest, I am quite excited and thankful that you have asked me to do this. I really really like your idea and have already begun developing some of my own ideas for the theme. Basically, it would involve an underlying repeating rhythm at first, using instruments that give the impression of machinery and steam, with a simple but catchy flute melody over it. But anyway, we should get together or Skype it up to talk directly about the soundtrack. Basically, though, I wouldn't give you the first piece I write, but get feedback from you, make it better/more suitable, work with you to structure the song to what would roughly be in time with the animation, and then work alongside you as you animate to fine tune it for the remainder of the year. Honestly wouldn't mind that, basically you're doing me a favor of getting experience of what it's like to be on the other end of working with a composer. Being in someone else's shoes is always good, which is why I also took an acting class.

[Muramasa]

Once again, I kinda liked the moral dilemma behind the choice of destroying the machinery. I think it helped to tell a story about the state of the world as it forces this young character to make a really tough, but human choice. That being said, that's actually a lot more simpler and will probably save you a decent amount of time. And sometimes simple is best.

[Inaaca]

Some rough gradual redesigns of Punk, in order of creation. I'll be doing a lot more of him in the coming few weeks.

[Inaaca]

Been practicing drawing Punk a lot. I need to get as comfortable with drawing him as I can in preparation for drawing him a LOT when I get around to animating. The biggest concern is keeping him consistent from drawing to drawing, which again will come with practice and subtle design tweaking/defining.

[Muramasa]

Not bad. Incidentally, have you tried messing around with giving him slightly larger eyes? I'm curious to see what impact it would have on the character; it may make Punk look a bit younger.

[Inaaca]

I was actually thinking of playing with his facial proportions, since I haven't really experimented in that area yet. I'll probably fiddle with that on the next page or two.

[The Dankness]

Pretty badass, he kinda looks like Bobby's World steampunk style.

[Inaaca]

I could use a bit of feedback on this one. Tried out a few eye/nose styles. Which do you think work best? I'm currently leaning toward 1 and 5.

Also, the "goggles down" expressions on the bottom. How effective are they? Should I add anything in the lenses for expression?

[ShortPerson]

#5 is cute.

For the goggles, I think as long as we can see Punk's eyebrows and mouth it works. I think they look good.

[Muramasa]

I'll have to say that #5 does bring out the most "child-like" nature of the character. Something seems off about #1, but I can't put my finger on it.

From the concept of #5, try making that face look more haggardly, and see if that effect works out. You're trying to make a worn-out child, so in theory, facial structure #5 and a worn look should go together. It might not look right in practice though...

If you used #6, I think he'd look too "round" for a child who is running low on supplies and over worked. It would offset a certain facial balance. For the record though, I do like face #4 because of how creepy they make Punk look.

Incidentally, I kinda feel that the googles seem a bit to big. I guess assuming that you choose to use face #5, it would push his eyebrows up unnaturally. But, maybe no one will notice. In this case, I'm just calculating possible outcomes for you.

But yeah, it seems to me that #5 has a good balance in terms of facial structure, achieving a conceptual target, and being easy to draw. The face seems like an "every kid". If we were living in that cartoon reality, we could kinda say "Yeah, I know someone who resembles that".

It's pretty late now, so I'm not sure how much of this makes sense. If you want me to clarify things, go ahead and ask.